OK. I have the frame put together and I am using pieces of luan plywood instead of the cedar planks just to avoid wasting money on my experimental prototype. How do I attach the rails. Are they sandwiched between the planks and the planks shaped into the rails or are they glued to the edge of the ribs and the edge of the planks, left oversized and then shaped

Ahhh here is the trade secret.

After you have your bottom planks glued up AND glued to your fishbone frame, it's time to define the outline of the board with the "chine strip." The chine strip fits into the 1/4 x 1/4 notch cut into each frame (you guys building the ten footer will need to cut in your 1/4 x 1/4 notches). This step is important because it defines the final "outline" shape of the board.

The following procedure is done in the rocker table with rocker still built in.

As an overview, here is a diagram of the finished rail in cross section. This particular diagram shows rail strips WITHOUT any bead and cove. Each one of those little wedged will eventually be filled with wood flour and epoxy.



Here is the way to attach the chine strip:

Put one loose clamp (or pvc ring) on the last frame (in the stern) and insert the chine strip. Apply Gorilla glue to its length and spritz the whole thing with water. work your way forward with with clamps at, and in between each frame ensuring a good glue joint at each frame and the bottom planks. At this point the bottom planks extend out BEYOND the width of the board by about an inch. In other words, you've rough cut the outline already with room to spare.



I've discovered that if you cover the whole nose with a very wet towel and apply a very HOT clothes iron to the area that covers the hardest curve of the outline, it will bend nicely). Let it sit for a minute or two under the heat but then you'll need to move quickly because the heat and steam will activate the Gorilla Glue fast. TRUST ME, this is the best way.

You add clamps as you move forward trying very hard to make a clean nose joint. let the strip run long in the nose and cut it with your japan saw later.

The two chine strips go on first (one on each side).

After the chine strip is glued on from tail to nose (or as far as you can bend then you do the rest). If you just cant seem to get your rail strips to make the bend in the nose, don't sweat it. You go as far as you can and then later cut off the entire business and install an nose block instead (that's why i've started to supply suggested nose block detail with the templates).

I've found Northern White Cedar to bend the best. Plus the thinner the stripes the easier they bend.

Keep in mind THIS IS BASICALLY THE HARDEST PART OF THE PROCESS. It just isn't easy no matter how you look at it... but it is possible, just don't get too frustrated.

I can see some merit in building out the rail with the ¼” strips as above. I’m sure that it makes compound curves easier to accomplish. I suppose that my question is does applying ¼” strips and filling the gaps with wood flour give you enough wood to shape your rails? It would seem to me that you might during the shaping process go down to 1/8” or even less in your total rail width. Sure you’ve greatly reduced the weight from the method where you apply strips to build up the rail, ie

But in reducing the amount of wood on the rail, aren’t you proportionally decreasing strength? From your illustration, it seems like you have reduced your gluing surface quite a bit too. Have you found any strength issues? I’m just worried about catastrophic failure based on those little gaps filled with wood flour. On the other hand, I bet that the board will flex much more when the rail is built of ¼” strips vs. laminated strips cut to the shape of the rocker acting as multiple perimeter stringers. What kind of flex difference have you found experimenting with these two rail methods?

Finally, are you resawing the ¼” strips from cedar, using marine ply or some other material(s)? And, are your ¼” rail strips cut to length to run the whole length of the board or are you joining the strips in the rail?

I hear your point. Since most, if not all of the rail shape is defined by the frames, there really is not much sanding to do after its all glued up. Done right, and carefully, not more than 1/32 of an inch of material is removed. Also since the board is glassed (if it is) that thickness is not too too much of an issue.

using Bead and cove works really well too. I on;ly showed the 1/4 x 1/4 strip method for those without access to a router and bead and cove bit. That's a big expense so this method is for folks who don't have one.

A BIG plus of the bead and cove method is that it helps a lot to have the aligning quality. Each strip tends to help line up and lock into place the next one making the gluing much easier.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of flex. Seems to me all it does is absorb energy... ask any mountain biker.

As for rail stock it's all cedar. Red or white...but white bends easier...

hope this answers you questions. Thanks!

It is truly amazing how people from different backgrounds come up with similar methods for doing things. I definately see the Maine boat building mecca influence.

I have been trying to work out a way to strip build rails in my head for a couple years. I don't have the patience or finess to shape rails. I wanted to "design" the rails like a boat builder would. I dreamed of boards based on tables of offsets. I thought I was nuts, I thought it wouldn't work.

Then I stumble onto this forum and bam the picture that has been in my head for years is sitting in front of me. Very cool. Further proof that I should stop thinking and start doing. If I only had more space. My wife is not a fan of epoxy in the living room.

Anyway, one question. How do you adjust for the change in thickness in the rails? Do all the strips get thinner as you get closer to the nose and tail or are there just more strips towards the center of the board. This hang up always bugged me. Plus I always worried about cove and bead in the tight radius of the rails. Very cool, very very cool.

Later

This was always the big question... how to deal with the change in board thickness from mid point to nose and tail. Especially with strips that DONT change in thickness. I'll see if I can find a photo that shows this...

here

The key here is not to try and adjust for thickness with the rail strips. Just keep building from tail to nose. In other words, at midpoint in the length of the board there are say, (8) 1/4" strips (that means 2" of rail strips) at mid point. Well there are also 2" of railstrips at the nose and tail. The only difference is that more of those rail strips are COVERED by the deck planks in the nose and tail. Get it?

At mid-point only 1/2" is covered, in the nose maybe 2 1/4" are covered but once the final shaping is done and the overlapped are is "faired" or "feathered" the joint disappears.

The end result is this.

Have you found any discontinuities from snap-back from the wood, or do you just kind of sand them out when they happen? It's a very interesting concept.

Cheers
Dave

Hey Rich, I am almost up to my rails (hopefully done this weekend - iknow i've said that before) and I was wondering if you could re phrase how you put the deck on. In a previous post or two you said:
11. Prepare surface for top panel (deck) by planing flat
-what do you mean?
and
once the final shaping is done and the overlapped are is "faired" or "feathered" the joint disappears.
-I realise that glueing the top down like this would be an easier method but when feathering wouldn't you get an inconsistant join line depending on the rail profile.

Have you tried marking and cutting the top to butt against the rails (and so sit in like a giant plug)?

ben

ps thanks again for this site and the gear - I have a smile glued to my face every time I head to the garage to work on the board.

Hey Lorboots Your previous question slipped by so I'll try to incorporate an answer here. - actually I'm not sure what you mean by snap-back...

*****Edit*******The following is wrong - see below*******
By "planing flat" I meant running your slightly-thicker-than-1/4inch planks through a planer - if you have one. If not, hand plane and sand to exactly 1/4" thickness. Then (at least the way I've done it) glue the planks into panels wide enough to span the width of your board (like a table top).
*****Edit see below************************************

After the top panels is glued down onto the upper surface of your rails and frames and keel, you are then basically shaping as you would a foam blank - very carefully. Just pretend it's foam but be super careful around that joint. if done right, there it should never be less that 1/4' right across the it.

In the photo above you can see a dark green "lap stripe." On that particular board, the grain lines ran very wide and ended up forming an irregular edge where the top panel met the rail strips (plus the wood was a contrasting color, adding to the effect). That's why I decided to add that green stripe. It's the the same as adding a pigmented stripe where the glass laps on a foamie. Good thing though, I like how it came out in the end.

I've thought about making the panel drop down into the whole and forming a but joint but that always seemed a hard thing to get perfect. Plus the overlap method provides a nice wide gluing and sealing surface.

Hope this explains it a little better.

PS - I know that perma-grin feeling.

I have now got the chine strips and the first of the rail strips down (the one that butts against the deck) and I am about to start building up the other strips. I have dry clamped the strips in place to check the fit and feel rather than backfilling with epoxy/wood-flour I should run a bead of some sort of filler as I go.

This should result in a stronger more complete join and be easier than trying to force filler into the space between the strips.

Any thoughts on this?

Any thoughts on filler?

I'd rather not mix up epoxy and wood-flour - I'd like some thing that is easy to squeeze out of a nozzle, and something single part that does not require mixing.